<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Idealist Game Designer</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.madbrewlabs.com/idealist-game-designer/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.madbrewlabs.com/idealist-game-designer/#utm_source=feed&amp;utm_medium=feed&amp;utm_campaign=feed</link>
	<description>Better Gaming By Design</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 20:22:11 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=8034</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Doug Daulton</title>
		<link>http://www.madbrewlabs.com/idealist-game-designer/comment-page-1/#comment-12604</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Daulton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 09:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.madbrewlabs.com/?p=1687#comment-12604</guid>
		<description>@MadBrew - First, thanks for the props about Neoncon &amp; GamesU.  We try to put together a fun AND useful show each year. We&#039;ll always have a seat for you when you find the time to come in! :D

As for the rest of my response ... it turned into something more detailed and elaborate than I planned. So, I decided to turn it into a blog post rather than clogging up your comment thread.  For those interested, you can find it here:

http://tinyurl.com/idealism-vs-creativity

I am happy to continue the conversation here if you like, I simply did not want to hijack your thread here with a ginormous post.
.-= Doug Daulton&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.neoncon.com/2010/03/05/building-a-career-in-the-games-industry/&quot;&gt;Building a Career in the Games Industry&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@MadBrew &#8211; First, thanks for the props about Neoncon &amp; GamesU.  We try to put together a fun AND useful show each year. We&#8217;ll always have a seat for you when you find the time to come in! :D</p>
<p>As for the rest of my response &#8230; it turned into something more detailed and elaborate than I planned. So, I decided to turn it into a blog post rather than clogging up your comment thread.  For those interested, you can find it here:</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/idealism-vs-creativity">http://tinyurl.com/idealism-vs-creativity</a></p>
<p>I am happy to continue the conversation here if you like, I simply did not want to hijack your thread here with a ginormous post.<br />
<span class="cluv"> Doug Daulton&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://www.neoncon.com/2010/03/05/building-a-career-in-the-games-industry/">Building a Career in the Games Industry</a> <span class="heart_tip_box"><img class="heart_tip" alt="My ComLuv Profile" border="0" width="16" height="14" src="http://www.madbrewlabs.com/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Idealism and creativity are not the same thing- Temple Lion</title>
		<link>http://www.madbrewlabs.com/idealist-game-designer/comment-page-1/#comment-12603</link>
		<dc:creator>Idealism and creativity are not the same thing- Temple Lion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 09:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.madbrewlabs.com/?p=1687#comment-12603</guid>
		<description>[...] presentation above has kicked off quite a passionate discussion over at Mad Brew Labs and the Kenzer &amp; Company forums. It seems that Marcelo&#8217;s comments are being seen by some [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] presentation above has kicked off quite a passionate discussion over at Mad Brew Labs and the Kenzer &amp; Company forums. It seems that Marcelo&#8217;s comments are being seen by some [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: MadBrew</title>
		<link>http://www.madbrewlabs.com/idealist-game-designer/comment-page-1/#comment-12596</link>
		<dc:creator>MadBrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 22:25:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.madbrewlabs.com/?p=1687#comment-12596</guid>
		<description>@Doug Daulton: I appreciate that you took some time to comment here and appreciate the effort you put toward GamesU and Neoncon (need to find room in my budget/schedule to fly out there soon).

I think I realize what he was trying to say, but it just didn&#039;t get interpreted that way by me. Which may prove beneficial anyways as it generated conversation on the topic. If I was to speculate at the motivation behind some of what he said, I would propose he wanted to splash some cold water in the face of the dreamers who haven&#039;t grounded their expectations in reality.

That&#039;s fine and needed.

But I&#039;m proposing that you don&#039;t have to even have financial success or widespread adoption as a goal to begin with. I also propose that the being an idealist/dreamer and being a good business person does not have to be mutually exclusive (though this often appears to be the case in the creative industries).

I think that maybe his passion for the financial success aspect of the industry (and I may have a more lose definition of &lt;em&gt;industry&lt;/em&gt; than Marcelo), destroyed the intent of the presentation. That cold splash of reality. Unfortunately, it came off as a sort of misguided rant, and I can just imagine how all the non-living-in-parent&#039;s-basement-roleplayers who bathe regularly would respond to his comment about the demographics of RPGs.

It&#039;s easy to get carried away about things you&#039;re passionate about; I have been guilty of that too (and no doubt will be many times in the future).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Doug Daulton: I appreciate that you took some time to comment here and appreciate the effort you put toward GamesU and Neoncon (need to find room in my budget/schedule to fly out there soon).</p>
<p>I think I realize what he was trying to say, but it just didn&#8217;t get interpreted that way by me. Which may prove beneficial anyways as it generated conversation on the topic. If I was to speculate at the motivation behind some of what he said, I would propose he wanted to splash some cold water in the face of the dreamers who haven&#8217;t grounded their expectations in reality.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s fine and needed.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;m proposing that you don&#8217;t have to even have financial success or widespread adoption as a goal to begin with. I also propose that the being an idealist/dreamer and being a good business person does not have to be mutually exclusive (though this often appears to be the case in the creative industries).</p>
<p>I think that maybe his passion for the financial success aspect of the industry (and I may have a more lose definition of <em>industry</em> than Marcelo), destroyed the intent of the presentation. That cold splash of reality. Unfortunately, it came off as a sort of misguided rant, and I can just imagine how all the non-living-in-parent&#8217;s-basement-roleplayers who bathe regularly would respond to his comment about the demographics of RPGs.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s easy to get carried away about things you&#8217;re passionate about; I have been guilty of that too (and no doubt will be many times in the future).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Doug Daulton</title>
		<link>http://www.madbrewlabs.com/idealist-game-designer/comment-page-1/#comment-12594</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Daulton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 19:51:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.madbrewlabs.com/?p=1687#comment-12594</guid>
		<description>Great conversation and debate. It is good to see such passion about game design.  As the creator of GamesU, it lets me know that we are accomplishing our goal of sparking conversation about the games industry.  With that said, I think I can offer some perspective on Marcelo&#039;s presentation.  

Before and after GamesU, Marcelo and I have had lots of conversations about the realities of balancing a passion for gaming and the desire to make a career within the hobby. Based on this experience, I can say with confidence that Marcelo is not anti-independent game design.  The point of his presentation is not to bash the creative spirits who are innovating outside of the larger game companies.  To the contrary, Marcelo is a strong advocate of the start-up game company.  

At GenCon 2009, I watched Marcelo walk around with two wet-behind-the-ears game designers and introduce them to people like Peter Adkison and other folks who would be important contacts for helping launch their games.  He did this because he loves gaming and wants to see fresh new voices and ideas come into the industry.

Some have characterized his GamesU presentation as a rant against the indie games movement and I know that he was concerned that it would be misunderstood in that way. That is not the case.  Rather, it is a very strong statement that the game industry needs independent game designers and studios to be realistic and business-oriented so the entire industry needs good products and good business models to succeed.  It is important for the ongoing health of the industry.  That was his point ... not pick up your tin soldiers and go home.

So, he is not anti-dreamer ... far from it.  He just wants dreamers to put their feet on the ground so they can be successful. He is not against part-time, &quot;garage&quot; game studios either.  He uses the sample of how Peter Adkison launched Wizards of the Coast to support the value of that sort of measured launch.

Now, he certainly made that point with passion, but that is Marcelo.  His passion for games is every bit as real as that of everyone posting here. Go back and listen to the story he told about his Dad throwing his games in the trash when he was a teen.  His Dad threw down the gauntlet to him ... &quot;make your passion your career&quot;.  All he is doing is issuing that challenge to you as well.

With that said, I&#039;ll pass on this link to Marcelo and we&#039;ll see if he jumps into the discussion.

Regards,

Doug Daulton
Executive Director
Neoncon &amp; GamesU

PS:  If anyone is interested at presenting at GamesU 2010, shoot me an email at gamesu@neoncon.com and let&#039;s talk.  Clearly, there are a lot of smart people here!
.-= Doug Daulton&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.neoncon.com/2010/03/05/building-a-career-in-the-games-industry/&quot;&gt;Building a Career in the Games Industry&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great conversation and debate. It is good to see such passion about game design.  As the creator of GamesU, it lets me know that we are accomplishing our goal of sparking conversation about the games industry.  With that said, I think I can offer some perspective on Marcelo&#8217;s presentation.  </p>
<p>Before and after GamesU, Marcelo and I have had lots of conversations about the realities of balancing a passion for gaming and the desire to make a career within the hobby. Based on this experience, I can say with confidence that Marcelo is not anti-independent game design.  The point of his presentation is not to bash the creative spirits who are innovating outside of the larger game companies.  To the contrary, Marcelo is a strong advocate of the start-up game company.  </p>
<p>At GenCon 2009, I watched Marcelo walk around with two wet-behind-the-ears game designers and introduce them to people like Peter Adkison and other folks who would be important contacts for helping launch their games.  He did this because he loves gaming and wants to see fresh new voices and ideas come into the industry.</p>
<p>Some have characterized his GamesU presentation as a rant against the indie games movement and I know that he was concerned that it would be misunderstood in that way. That is not the case.  Rather, it is a very strong statement that the game industry needs independent game designers and studios to be realistic and business-oriented so the entire industry needs good products and good business models to succeed.  It is important for the ongoing health of the industry.  That was his point &#8230; not pick up your tin soldiers and go home.</p>
<p>So, he is not anti-dreamer &#8230; far from it.  He just wants dreamers to put their feet on the ground so they can be successful. He is not against part-time, &#8220;garage&#8221; game studios either.  He uses the sample of how Peter Adkison launched Wizards of the Coast to support the value of that sort of measured launch.</p>
<p>Now, he certainly made that point with passion, but that is Marcelo.  His passion for games is every bit as real as that of everyone posting here. Go back and listen to the story he told about his Dad throwing his games in the trash when he was a teen.  His Dad threw down the gauntlet to him &#8230; &#8220;make your passion your career&#8221;.  All he is doing is issuing that challenge to you as well.</p>
<p>With that said, I&#8217;ll pass on this link to Marcelo and we&#8217;ll see if he jumps into the discussion.</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Doug Daulton<br />
Executive Director<br />
Neoncon &amp; GamesU</p>
<p>PS:  If anyone is interested at presenting at GamesU 2010, shoot me an email at <a href="mailto:gamesu@neoncon.com">gamesu@neoncon.com</a> and let&#8217;s talk.  Clearly, there are a lot of smart people here!<br />
<span class="cluv"> Doug Daulton&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://www.neoncon.com/2010/03/05/building-a-career-in-the-games-industry/">Building a Career in the Games Industry</a> <span class="heart_tip_box"><img class="heart_tip" alt="My ComLuv Profile" border="0" width="16" height="14" src="http://www.madbrewlabs.com/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Greylond</title>
		<link>http://www.madbrewlabs.com/idealist-game-designer/comment-page-1/#comment-12585</link>
		<dc:creator>Greylond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 06:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.madbrewlabs.com/?p=1687#comment-12585</guid>
		<description>My point is that there are many, many, quality and Award Winning games writing by game designers who hold &quot;Day Jobs&quot;. I&#039;d much rather have a slower production, yet very good game than a bunch of mediocre games being put out the door just so a company has product to sale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My point is that there are many, many, quality and Award Winning games writing by game designers who hold &#8220;Day Jobs&#8221;. I&#8217;d much rather have a slower production, yet very good game than a bunch of mediocre games being put out the door just so a company has product to sale.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: MadBrew</title>
		<link>http://www.madbrewlabs.com/idealist-game-designer/comment-page-1/#comment-12582</link>
		<dc:creator>MadBrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 03:15:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.madbrewlabs.com/?p=1687#comment-12582</guid>
		<description>@Greylond: Satyre, about 4 posts up, links to a site with more information. Here is also a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=showcreator&amp;creatorid=1972&quot;&gt;list of works&lt;/a&gt; from the Pen &amp; Paper DB. He has credits on the 7th Sea RPG.

This discussion isn&#039;t meant to be a personal attack, just a rebuttal of this specific presentation. So I don&#039;t want to take anything away from his contributions to the world of gaming.

As a side note, it appears this article spun off and generated some comments on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.kenzerco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47106&quot;&gt;Kenzer Company forums&lt;/a&gt; if anyone wants to take a gander there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Greylond: Satyre, about 4 posts up, links to a site with more information. Here is also a <a href="http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=showcreator&#038;creatorid=1972">list of works</a> from the Pen &#038; Paper DB. He has credits on the 7th Sea RPG.</p>
<p>This discussion isn&#8217;t meant to be a personal attack, just a rebuttal of this specific presentation. So I don&#8217;t want to take anything away from his contributions to the world of gaming.</p>
<p>As a side note, it appears this article spun off and generated some comments on the <a href="http://www.kenzerco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47106">Kenzer Company forums</a> if anyone wants to take a gander there.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Greylond</title>
		<link>http://www.madbrewlabs.com/idealist-game-designer/comment-page-1/#comment-12580</link>
		<dc:creator>Greylond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 23:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.madbrewlabs.com/?p=1687#comment-12580</guid>
		<description>Who is this guy? What games has he actually create/written?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who is this guy? What games has he actually create/written?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: MadBrew</title>
		<link>http://www.madbrewlabs.com/idealist-game-designer/comment-page-1/#comment-12579</link>
		<dc:creator>MadBrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 23:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.madbrewlabs.com/?p=1687#comment-12579</guid>
		<description>@Satyre: Thanks for that link.

@Louis Porter, Jr.: People who follow his mindset come off feeling exactly like a used car salesman. Sure, they&#039;ll sell a ton of crap to the unweary, but then everyone finds out he&#039;s scammer and he moves on to &quot;work&quot; over a new crowd. It&#039;s not always about the money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Satyre: Thanks for that link.</p>
<p>@Louis Porter, Jr.: People who follow his mindset come off feeling exactly like a used car salesman. Sure, they&#8217;ll sell a ton of crap to the unweary, but then everyone finds out he&#8217;s scammer and he moves on to &#8220;work&#8221; over a new crowd. It&#8217;s not always about the money.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Louis Porter Jr.</title>
		<link>http://www.madbrewlabs.com/idealist-game-designer/comment-page-1/#comment-12578</link>
		<dc:creator>Louis Porter Jr.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 22:30:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.madbrewlabs.com/?p=1687#comment-12578</guid>
		<description>From a complete business mindset, he is right.  Best of all, if you listen and take is seriously, it will help you grow your business in the long term.
.-= Louis Porter Jr.&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/InTheMindOfAMadMan/~3/aOm0ljU1x9U/matrix-agent-to-be-captain-americas-red.html&quot;&gt;Matrix agent to be Captain America&#039;s Red Skull?&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From a complete business mindset, he is right.  Best of all, if you listen and take is seriously, it will help you grow your business in the long term.<br />
<span class="cluv"> Louis Porter Jr.&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/InTheMindOfAMadMan/~3/aOm0ljU1x9U/matrix-agent-to-be-captain-americas-red.html">Matrix agent to be Captain America&#8217;s Red Skull?</a> <span class="heart_tip_box"><img class="heart_tip" alt="My ComLuv Profile" border="0" width="16" height="14" src="http://www.madbrewlabs.com/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: satyre</title>
		<link>http://www.madbrewlabs.com/idealist-game-designer/comment-page-1/#comment-12577</link>
		<dc:creator>satyre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 22:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.madbrewlabs.com/?p=1687#comment-12577</guid>
		<description>Those of you wondering who Marcello is may want to look &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pulpgamer.com/insidetrack/134734/pgit-069-marcelo-a-figueroa/&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.

I also think we aren&#039;t making the best of technology.  Equally, yes you need to research and accept some lines of enquiry won&#039;t make you the next Gary Gygax.  Yet every time I hear someone making &#039;idealists suck&#039; noises I also get the hackles rising.  It&#039;s not like we&#039;ve ever seen disruptive innovation before is it?  :-)
.-= satyre&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/FameFortune/~3/EXXs0FCzLcQ/recession-proof-gaming-vii-mission-to.html&quot;&gt;recession-proof gaming VII - mission to game&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those of you wondering who Marcello is may want to look <a href="http://www.pulpgamer.com/insidetrack/134734/pgit-069-marcelo-a-figueroa/">here</a>.</p>
<p>I also think we aren&#8217;t making the best of technology.  Equally, yes you need to research and accept some lines of enquiry won&#8217;t make you the next Gary Gygax.  Yet every time I hear someone making &#8216;idealists suck&#8217; noises I also get the hackles rising.  It&#8217;s not like we&#8217;ve ever seen disruptive innovation before is it?  :-)<br />
<span class="cluv"> satyre&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/FameFortune/~3/EXXs0FCzLcQ/recession-proof-gaming-vii-mission-to.html">recession-proof gaming VII &#8211; mission to game</a> <span class="heart_tip_box"><img class="heart_tip" alt="My ComLuv Profile" border="0" width="16" height="14" src="http://www.madbrewlabs.com/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
